white lion halp?

[Ostalic]

my main character is a warrior priest :D for my renown i have mostly used toughness, str and willpower.

i have just started my white lion and i have no clue as what to spend my points on and what path to pick. is weapon skill, strenght and toughness the only point i need to spend? or do i need to slot wounds somewhere?

any suggestions would be greatful :D

p.s. i blame konfuz for getting me into this class :P:eek2:

[avica]

for WP if u going dps don't waste renown points on willpower....

and if heal spec dont waste renown on strength or weapon skill....

despite being billed as a hybrid its not... unfortunatly its one or the other:)

[konfuzfanten]

This is a write up on the WL. Now my experience: have play my own WL up to lvl 21 BUT I have played with a friends WL (lvl 40 rr 58-60) "live" and on a test server so this is what I know:

The WL is a monster in tier 2-3, very little comes close to it in duels and 1v1. The WL is build to do 3 things:
1) kill squishies
2) survive long enough to get away.
3) stalking

1)
The thing that’s make the WL special is the combination of burst dmg and crowd control. We are designed to kill healers (mostly shamans and zealots) so we have all the tools for it: insane burst dmg and the ability to keep a target constant snared.

2)
The game of WAR is a game of math and psychology and the WL benefits from both. From my experience around around 1/3 – 1/2% of all the players in tier 1-3 are rerolls from tier 4/lvl 40 alts. There is a prejudice against WL, most ppl think that WLs are utter crap, and yes the WL is a difficult class to play but in the right hands it will be a monster. Now the prejudice against the WL means that you will not be a high priority target for the lvl 40 alts and the fact that you have relative high wounds+medium armour+aoe detaunt makes you very hard to kill.
Can you stand in the middle of a destro wb and just tank them? No
Can you target a healer charge in, aoe detaunt, and burn him down before you die and have a 50/50 change of getting away? Yes!

Simply put you don't need a healer to take advantage of your burst dmg/killing power.

3)
Duels and 1vs1 is where the WL shines. You one of the best gankers in tier 1-3, the combination of high burst, speeds skills(flee+AP pot, charge, pounce) and cc(lion has a 10 sec snare with 10 sec CD, and you have a 10 sec snare skill, so you can keep your target constant snared) means that you can pick a target charge/run/pounce in snare and just burn the target down. If the target is resilient and your losing you can get away by kiting and just keeping your kitty on the target. So even If you pick a target you cant kill you can get away and find another target.

For kill rotations:
Sub lvl 32 kill rotation:
Primal fury+pounce+pack assault+coordinated strike+lions fury (now your target should be trying to run) +blind sided+sundering chop for the win. Ofc fire Pack assault+Coordinated strike if they are not on CD. When the target is dead Pounce back to the order healers and kill the destro dps there or go for the next destro healer.

If your target gets outside your attack range Charge+Cleave limb will take care of that.

If there is dps/tanks in the vicinity of your target just go:
primal fury+pounce+Submission(our aoe detaunt) and then go kill rotation.

Important:
Remember that the lions skills needs to be on CD before coordinated strike will fire all 4 attacks! So I normally fire off my dots then CS.

Another good tactic is to charge in, fire your rotation when your AP hits 0 begin to kite as your kitty holds the target snared when coordinated strike isn’t on CD and you have a good amount of AP charge in for the next burst rotation.

A warning the Doks can be a pain, if you meet one that’s stacked with amour talis you just cant touch them. Was fighting a lvl 12 dok and I could’nt scratch him with my top geared WL (lvl 20 - 2 set items, crit boots, blue shoulders(with+3% crit)/belt/helm, blue and purple str/AP jewellery. All gear slotted with +19 str and my inf elite rewards axe slotted with +19str and +15 ws talis and poped a +50 str pot.).

Spec: stay away from the guardian mastery, its pretty much crap right now.
Go hunter, then axeman.
The spec most WLs runs are:

lvl 20 WL:
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#5:32:0:0:0:0:25:521:9198::::::62 7:628

lvl 30 WL:
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#7:160:5:32:0:0:25:521:9198:9210: ::::627:628

lvl 40 WL:
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#7:160:13:8736:0:0:25:521:523:921 0:9198::::9224:628:9226:630


Tactics:
Brute force(more str), Pack Hunting(faster attack speed) and Flanking(more dmg at the side or rear) are "must have" right now. If you have 2 tactic slots you go Brute force and Pack Hunting, when you hit lvl 30 slot Flanking. Some slot Speed training(50% more speed to the pet lion), Lion heart (more dmg to our spirit attack) or Tearing blade(adds dot dmg to our main attack - sundering chop) but the problem is that you lose out on burst dmg and that’s the thing that the WLs lives and dies by.

Speed training:
Speed training makes it easier to capture targets but with pounce, flee+AP pot and charge you should have enough speed to capture your target.
A single point: speed training is great with Fetch (a lvl 40 pull skill).

Lion heart:
Makes it easier to kill tanks and doks. Now thats a good thing, the only problem is thats not your job! The WL kill-list goes like this: zealot/shaman, sorceress, herder(also know as freenown or greenown by WLs), WE, doks, mdps and tanks, scratching your ass/your kitty for a job well done THEN kill the magus because hes obstruction your view and you have nothing better to do. So we really don’t need to waste a tactic to make our spirit attack better.

Tearing blade
A good tactic especially in PvE, where dmg over time is king, but the other tactics will add more burst dmg to each attack, so this one loses to better tactics.

Gear:
The WL are one of the most gear depended classes in the game because we don’t have any class mechanics we can tweak and we cant stack wounds/tgh because it will gimp our dmg. Like witch hunters the WL operates outside the healers range/view so positioning and patience is everything for a kill. But when you get good at it you will be able to dominate a scenario and kill rows of destro. You need to stack Str and WS talis to be effective.

A few words on the stack str/ws VS wounds/tgh: we are the most AP using class in the game so you need as much dmg out of each attack as you can get. Yes you will survive longer with wounds/tgh but it doesn’t matter as you will be dead in the water because of the lack of AP. Go with the glass cannon build and pick your target with care.

A last advice:
Get "loyal pet" addon
Get cultivating/butcher and apothecary as your craft and start making healer/hot, str/armour and AP pots. The AP pots will be the difference between a kill and the target getting help/surviving.

If you have a question just post your lvl and gear and ill make another post.

[limryil]

I vote that konfuzfanten, should be moderator of the the class discussion forums!:D:worthy:

[Ostalic]

lotsa helpful information there ty :fluffle:

:beer:

[Polemides]

superb reply, thx Konf!

[Torgson]

I have a lvl 40 WL too, and though he was fun to play below T4 because I played in small skirmish guild groups, I found it completely useless in T4 zergfests:
- if there are many players your lion will be completely unusable due to lag and pathing issues, so yeah, don't go guardian, but rather Axeman + Loner tactic
- all your positional attacks will fail because your target will never be where you think it is, due to lag too.
- to get a healer you need to run into the enemy WBs, meaning you'll die in about 5 secs, and you can charge back all you want, you'll still be full of DOTs.
- pounce is funny but if your target is moving you'll first go back and forth in mid air and then land all desoriented next to your target, and of course if it's a shaman you'll be immediately bumped away.
- don't even think about levelling from 32 to 40 in T4 RvR. It will be a chore.

Of course I'm not a very skilled player, my stuff is subpar in today's T4 and I played in PUG WBs, so perhaps WL can be the killing machine described above with good healing and stuff, but I still think it's very situational in the current T4 playstyle.

That being said I had very good time with him when doing skirmish, where your pet can be very useful to slow runners and harass healers and where pouncing and charging won't mean your immediate death but rather the one of your target.
Scenarios are OK too.

Nonetheless, I may give it a try again some day, just to be sure.

[konfuzfanten]

Hey Torgson the write up I have done is on the WL tier 2-3 (tier 1 is pretty much: run in, kill something, die, respawn, run in, kill something, die, respawn…)

Now tier 4 is where the challenge starts. Tier 4, as it is now, is made for AOE (healing and dmg) so the WL and WH is pretty much useless or very ineffective in tier 4 massive orvr.

I personally think that the white lion is the most difficult char to play in tier 4 for the simple reasons: no effective aoe, hard to get up close and personal (no stealth and our medium armour/wounds is shit in orvr), a pets that has a mind of it own/gets stuck/dies in 3 hits and an absurd AP need.

So whats your role in orvr tier 4? Protect the healers, hang back (waaay back) and wait for the WE, Mara, choppas, 2-hander tanks to pop/run towards the healers and intercept/kill them(destro, not the order healers. This one is important!). You can pick off rdps/healers when the battlefronts are jointed and ppl are in "kill frenzy". Yes the healer protection is not the glammer position but you will keep the healers alive for a little longer and get more kills as you/the pet won’t be dying in the frontline aoe.

Levelling from 32 – 40:

First and foremost a warning i havnt played a WL from lvl 32-40, but I have levelled 4 lvl 40 characters though lvl 32-40 and yes single target mdps are the hardest char’s to play in tier 4.

The one thing the WL isn’t build to do is running in zergs BUT that dosnt mean that you cant lvl it though rvr in tier 4.

My normal advice for rr levelling for single target char’s is this:
a) go sc’s only, and remember to zone leech/run with the order zerg when it pushes(king nights).
b) try your gimped aoe spec and just spam your craptastic dmg aoe skill.

a)
Pretty simple stay in the single target burst/glass cannon build and just level though the sc’s. Before you hit full invader(other WLs say warlord) your job will be to protect the healers from destro mdps. Pretty much the same role as in orvr, BUT with less aoe so you can charge/pounce destro rpds/healers if the battleline is breaking.

b)
The easiest way to level though rvr as a lvl 32-40 is to switch to our semi-ineffective aoe spec and run in the protection of the zerg. Spec for aoe dmg and be a 2 button masher in every orvr situation, especially Altdorf/IC sieges are good for renown/xp.
The reason behind this tactic: you get renown/xp from "tagging" (damaging) destro players so when you just spam your weak aoe dmg you may not kill many but you will get a lot of assist kills and those assist kills will give you a steady amount of renown/XP.
The downside to this tactic is that you will be next to useless in sc’s an will need to stack wounds/tgh to survive as you will be closer to the frontline aoe.

There is a c) option: get with a very good single target (premade) group/wb and go ganking/flanking action in orvr.


Ofc you need at least a sandstorm/LV/IC/tomb weapon to be effective, the WL is on of the most gear depended classes in the game. (edit: this is not entirely true but a uber weapon/invader gear or better will make your WL a lot easier to play and make it possible to kill healers before they have time to kite/kill you. Im gunning for a Sandstorm or Akure (the Sun tomb axe and the best axe in the game).

As the white lion/mdps is now you need very good battlefield awareness and precognition to be effective. You pretty much need to know where your target will be, before your target actually is at that spot. It is challenging to play any mdps, especially a WL, but when you make it work the feeling is GREAT :-D

Again feel free to ask about anything. Ill write a post on "stand dancing" one of the next days.

[Sorinda]

Holy Crap Konfuz!!!!! A few suggestions though:

1. Need Spreadsheets.

2. Screenshots or its not true.

3. Did you consider staggering the pet?

:flame:

[konfuzfanten]

Tillingen is always staggered, you know that Sorinda! I keep her on a tight lease or she will run off with some stray squig!

[Peavey]

Change your pet name to Sorindfanten

[ToryBasher]

Konf, are you a scientist in real life?

I mean a real scientist and not one of those climate change ones!

[limryil]

Tory i just noticed, i like you signature! ;)

[konfuzfanten]

Well im not a science geek if you ask that :-) I do have a master's degree in history (North Korea as my specialty) and ofc a staggered pet!

[Prelate]

Um, wow. First time I really checked this post. I am now bit staggered ;)
Better I don't say anything more or I soon get the "Yeah, but but but, I have to disagree on this one..." :D

[konfuzfanten]

Go on, give me a shot Prelate! :worthy:

[Prelate]

OK. Let's give it a shot then.

Here's one white lion action clip for you to analyze... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3TqhfwO3CA&feature=related

[avica]

hahahahaha!!!!1111oneoneleven


:worthy: prelate

[konfuzfanten]

:-D good one Prelate!

Alright back to my lovely White lion obsession.


Stance dancing:

Stance dancing is the art of chancing ones "stance", as a WL your stances are trained to hunt[TTH]/ threaten[TTT]/kill[TTK]. The marauder, White lion and SW can/should do this to max the effect of their class mechanics. Ofc knights and Chosens have aura twisting, but that’s a different story.

The main reason why you want to stance dance is to take advance of the different trainings buffs. As a single target WL the main stance dancing is between TTH(for +50% auto attack speed form your tactic) and TTT (armour debuff and snare). If you want to stance dance you open with TTT and armour debuff/snare your target and switch to TTH for the autoattack speed buff. In the optimal situation you then switch back to TTT every 10 sec get the armour debuff/snare and switch back to TTH. But in the heat of battle it’s a little more complicated.

As I previous mentioned stance dancing in duels can give you the edge. Use TTT to snare your target, letting you kite the target pretty easy WHEN you run out of AP. As you kite you build your AP for the next burst rotation. Another (slower) tactic is to switch between TTT and TTK and let your kitty do all the dmg to the target, as you kite and keep your pet heal up. Especially against marauders this is a good tactic.

There is a few problems with stance dancing as a single target WL. You should be using Pack Hunting (+50% attack speed) but for that tactic to work you need to be in the TTH. The other problem is that it takes 1 GC(global cooldown) to switch between stances and in a close fight 1 GC will be the difference between a kill and you being killed. What I normally do is to charge/pounce in with TTT slotted and as soon Tillingen has armour debuffed/snared the target ill switch to TTH. If im fighting a mdps/tank ill change to TTT when I run out of AP and kite them as my AP is building. If it’s a healer/rpds ill stay in trained to hunt and try and kill them with my auto attack and few AP using attacks.

If you run as an aoe WL you really don’t need to stance dance, just stay in TTT for the extra +crit. As a note you should be running with the loner tactic if you are an aoe WL, as your kitty will die very fast in tier 4 if you are on the frontline.

[Kabane]

Okies here goes,
ive had time to mull over and digest ur post Konfuz,
i have lvled a WL upto 40 and in PvE the WL soloing is a demon at lvl40 u can easyly solo a lvl40-42 champ. but we are talking about RvR and unfortunatly it is a differnt story.
At lvl34+ in rvr you are going to have a Hard time, near enough the only time your going to get a look in on the healer's/spellcaster's, is by leaping over the tank wall, that isnt a huge problem the main problem is the tanks will target u the spellcasters will MA u and DoT ur A$$ by the time u land on ur taget u will have about 2-3 seconds of life left in you, the trick here is to do as much dammage as possable before u go down, killing the enemy will become secondry braking the destro line will become primary.
Sneeking around the back to pick your target off off is not something id sugest in most cases you will be in a fight with someone before you can get to the target you want. and ull be fighting for your life agest useally unwinable odd's.
Your new favourate target will become WE's these u can solo and take out because they generally run solo to gank other players, the most important thing u need to do when ur on a solo run is have your pet on aggro setting 100% of the time, WE's Cannot out stealth a pet and when they are checking u out the pet will go for them, u also need a sort of 6th sence you Need to know when ur pet is going to attack milliseconds before the pet attacks u want snare firing as the pet hit so using Lpet have the snare of the pets attack striking first in the list, even though the WE will be close to you u want to disorantate your target fire of Primal fury then best tacket is to pounce, for a moment or 2 the WE will think ur making a run for it the next second ur landing on there head hitting them, at this point you want to be hitting with pack assault then Sundering chop, Shattering blow, Cleave limb, pack assault should be back up use it then hit coordinated strike and finnish the WE off with Cull the weak.
If you find urself agesnt a tank run, if you cant run make it painfull for them use Cleave limb, hit them with pack assault and rotate between Sundering chop and coordinated strike. you will in 99% of cases die in 45% of case u Might take out the tank to in 55% of the cases ur'll hurt there ego. ;)


If your running solo and get into a fight ur losing, Charge ur a$$ out of there hit when u hit the 45%(ish) hp market knock on a 3k heal pot and pounce back in, this will doa couple thing's 1, u get full hp, 2 you dont give them time to think about hitting a pot before you re-attack, you want Ensnare on as M1, to give u time to use your charge to get the flook out of there then build up to Force of Will on as M2, Domminace as M3 if ur still on a cool down when u get M2 up then run it to M3 u do 1800 dammage to them and steal a bog load of health, if M2 is out of CD then steal there action points and go primevil on there green a$$.

when fighting a cloth wearer, then think about your attacks' have a Qbar for cloth wears use that Qbar to its full potental, "squishies" as Konfuz likes to call them, in T4 are not Squishy,. have another Qbar setup for WE's these are easyer imo than caster's . and finnaly have a qbar set up for pure hate attacks every massive dammage attack u have needs to be in there and this qbar is for......Tanks and heavy armor target's.


Finnaly ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS thank the person who heals you, you more likely to get more heals' and NEVER EVER walk away from a rezzer without thanking them.

[konfuzfanten]

Agreed on most points Kabane and to quote myself:

"So whats your role in orvr tier 4? Protect the healers, hang back (waaay back) and wait for the WEs, Maras, choppas, 2-hander tanks to pop/run towards the healers and intercept/kill them. You can pick off rdps/healers when the battle lines are jointed and ppl are in "kill frenzy". Yes the healer protection is not the glammer position but you will keep the healers alive for a little longer and get more kills as you/the pet won’t be dying in the frontline aoe."

On the topic of killing rdps/healers, yes you need a very good weapon AND battlefield chaos to work effetely. Personally I rarely try and get to destros backline, ill stay close to the order healers/rpds and wait for destro. The only time I do pounce to the backline is when the order tanks/other mdps have broken the line and is winning.

Some WL stack WS, instead of str, and slot the Lion heart tactic so they can hit the 2-hander tanks/maras. I have tried this, but as I like to gank/solo I normally stack str to 1000 and then go ws.

On the topics of squishies, yes a lot more ppl stack wounds/armour/tgh and this is where your gear comes in to the picture. If you are running with a sandstorm/akure+conq/invader the squishies will feel like squishies, but if you cant afford/find the uber dps-weapons you will be bringing a knife to a gunfight. Yes its unfair, but you really need a top dps weapon to be effective as a WL.

The only tanks I cant beat is Chosens, BOs and BG go down after a hard fight(this is at rr60-tier 4). You should be able to solo most rpds, even rpds that are higher rr/geared then you. Kiting healers are a pain in the ass, zealots are the easiest, then shamans(cant kill the good ones) and then the semi-immortal doks.

My playing style is solo and ganking, I don’t run with wbs and I don’t fight against zergs. I try and find offzones and wait for my prey to come running by.

If we are talking a pure ganking/duel spec this is what I run:
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#0:0:13:10784:9:512:29:9214:523:9 198:9199::::9224:628:9226:630
Now there is no autoattack speed tactic and no pounce. But you will get more cc and you can better stance dance with this build. The attack rotation depends on your target, but against healers its:
cleave limb, thin the herd, primal fury, pack assault, coordinated strike, sundering chop, shattering blow then back to sundering chop. Thin the herd needs to be on the target 100% of the time, so each time it runs out reapply.
When the target hits 50% health pop a AP potion/AP drain moral 2, then fire the kill-burst rotation: pack assault then brutal pounce/silence, cull the weak, fey illusion, coordinated strike, sundering chop(s) for the win.

For tanks its pretty much what Kabane said: jsut remember to use lions fury as much as possible.

For Rpds: easy fight just keep them close with fetch/cleave limb/trained to threaten and just waste them. Herders with their race run-tactic (the odjira tactic) and a odjira slotted using the RUN AWAY skill is very diffucult to kill but with a little luck it can be done. Your pet with trained to threaten and speed tactic will keep the herder permasnared and IF you have an Odjira slotted herders are the easiest class to kill. Ofc if you see Floo(a herder) run, you cant beat him as he is using cheats/warbuddy. Sorc and magus are freenown.

Its important that you don’t fire your silence/KD before you know that you can burst the target down. When you try and solo/gank a healer you need to watch your AP, don’t go crazy, make sure that you can hit 150-200 AP points when your target hits 50%.

You need to stance dance between trained to threaten and kill for max dmg.

[konfuzfanten]

a quick note, my playing style is that of a soloer/ganker. I know that Kabane plays a different style so my WL posts anit the WL posts end all WL posts :)

[Kabane]

Agreed on most points Kabane and to quote myself:

"So whats your role in orvr tier 4? Protect the healers, hang back (waaay back) and wait for the WEs, Maras, choppas, 2-hander tanks to pop/run towards the healers and intercept/kill them. You can pick off rdps/healers when the battle lines are jointed and ppl are in "kill frenzy". Yes the healer protection is not the glammer position but you will keep the healers alive for a little longer and get more kills as you/the pet won’t be dying in the frontline aoe."

.


I think thats the part we disagree on tbh, im an old style type of player and imo, the role of a MDPS is to kill the cloth wears, the role of the tanks to to protect the healers and cloth wears, the role of the cloth wears is to burn the tanks and the role of the healers is well to heal

[Zafiriel]

So the big question that we are all waiting the answer for is:

How's the WL after the pach?

As I saw in the notes there were some significant changes made... I'd check WHA forums but I avoid that place, just too much negative vibes...
And why go anywhere else when we have our Konfuz right here ;)

So what's the verdict?

:beer:

Zaf

[konfuzfanten]

I really like the patch, but further buffs are need! The dev need to take a HARD look at the guarding/pet spec because it not working right now.

The pounce change is great, as a single target WL i LOVE it, more dmg, less AP, what's not to like? But what are that skill doing in the aoe spec now when its a single target skill?

On lionheart+lions fury, mm i don’t know. I like it, but need to run a few numbers with lionheart+lions fury vs flanking before i can say anything. I know that if we look at the raw numbers flanking wins but as we all know its difficult to get behind a target with the lags in tier 4. In rvr I always run with brute force/full-grown, pack hunting and pack synergy, the last tactic is normally lionheart/tearing blade or flanking. Ofc the crits on lions fury is nice and seeing the tank beginning to panic from spike spirit dmg is even more fun! Lions fury+lionheart with primal fury+pack synergy (in invader/conq I run with 21% crit) is a very good tank/dok/mara killer.

Again i know that Kabane plays a more aoe minded WL so i dont think he likes the pounce change.

[Kabane]

No Konfuz ur right i dont like the patch for a couple reasons,
when spec'ed soloy for single target kills, the damage output is close to that if you are spec for aoe and only hit a single target,
the incressed dammage of the Pounce is neglable imo but the cost reduction is good,
Cleave Limb fix with reduced Action Points is good
Coordinated Strike Fix so the lion attacks ur target if it is target less is good also.
Lions Fury imo Meh no real change tbh.

i think they still have a long way to go inorder to fix the Wl's and make them truly competative.

i Will be respecing again and going back to aoe CC, as i said before there is no real differnce between the aoe damage output on a single target and a single target spec on a single target.

[Fait]

I've been tinkering with Cadreaft's White Lions a bit trying to find out the good set of skills to make her more useful out there. At the moment she's specced for Pounce and auto attack increase on Path of the Hunter and rest in Axeman up to the healing debuff. I set up some NB macros to clean up the action bars a bit (like Hack, Coordinated Strike, Lion's Fury when cursed, Cull The Weak when target under 50% health on one button etc), but there's still a lot to do in a single fight.

I guess the real problem at the moment is her gear. With renown rank only 31 she's just starting to get her first annihilators and although the 40 blue axe is pretty decent the dps output is just not cutting it vs high renown players. The only time I felt useful was when we met another pug scenario group in the Temple of Isha and actually got to hit things, apply healing debuffs and pull healers out of the safety of cliffs without getting gibbed in few seconds.

So the real question is (yes, I had one) what would be the best way to spec at her current gear level? I was hoping for some ez mode Guardian spec but they REALLY butchered that since the autumn. Lion's Fury spam with the tactic slotted? AoE renown farm with path of the hunter? :)

Edit: Almost forgot. It's pretty silly that most healers seem to run faster than her WL does (not to mention healers that seem to teleport 5 meters away when you get next to them).

[konfuzfanten]

1)
lions Fury+lion heart will now do 5% more dmg compared to 1.3.3 AND crit for a higher amount. Flanking/tearing blade is better for overall dmg, but with the lag fest in tier 4 and the ability to hit tanks/medium armoured targets hard I would go with lion heart over tearing blade in a single target burst build. But the lions Fury+lion heart combination does depend on having pack synergy and +20% crit rate.

Forgot the cleave limb and coordinated strike fixs, that also good!

2)
I really don’t agree on the single target vs aoe spec doing the same dmg. Sundering chop will do more dmg, the auto attack tactic is around 10-15% dmg and ofc cull the weak is our best finisher. If you go aoe, you cant have our semi-bad healer debuff (thin the herd).

Fait, i will write a few words tonight or tomorrow.

[konfuzfanten]

The person that plays Cadreaft what kind of playing style has he/she?

Healer-protection/wait for the right moment to pounce in for the kill?
Or
Semi-tank/survival?
Or
Healer killer, pounce in and go wild in the destro backline risk dying in 10-20 sec.
Or
Aoe spec, just spam our 2 aoe skills for tagging destro for renown whoring.

Healer-protection:
I play the first playing style, ill wait and pick my targets very careful then unless hell on that poor soul. Yes sometimes im running around in the order backline wait between 2-3 min, only hitting destro that’s get near the order healer before I pounce for a destro kill. To play this kind of WL you really need to know when to pounce and when to just stay put, if you are in doubt the best thing to do is just to stay at the order healers and wait for a better target. Again I know that this playing style is not for everyone. This build is pretty simple just stack str to 1000 then ws. Wounds around 800 with liniments. Go for 100% burst build: http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#7:160:13:8736:0:0:25:9210:523:52 1:9204 switch tearing blade to pack synergy when you get your crit rate to 20%+. Use trained to hunt as main stance.

Semi-tank:
If you are going for semi-tank try and stack parry and wounds and some tgh. Go with:
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#5:40:0:0:15:10752:25:9217:9209:5 21:9200
This build is played like a 2-hander tank, with heavy use of submission you can stay on the frontline without dying much, but you will sacrifice you dmg AND you will constantly be low on AP.
Get around 9000+ wounds, 400+ tgh some ini, then str. Your dmg will be gimp but you will survive.

Use trained to kill as main stance.

Healer killer:
Build wise its pretty much the same as the healer-protection build, the difference is the playing style: pounce in and try and get a destro healer(s) down before you get killed. You will die a lot with this playing style if you don’t have a good pocket healer. Another spec that’s good for this is this: http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#7:160:5:32:9:512:25:523:9210:521 :9204 it’s a ganker(solo killing) spec, since you will be running with a 3 sec stun, and ofc you will lose your best finisher+healer debuffer. I would stay in the burst build but some WL go for the stun.
Use trained to hunt as main stance.

AoE spec:
You can pounce to the destro backline and go crazy with aoe, kinda like the healer killer style or stay at the frontline(try and get a guard) and stack wounds with some tgh, Str, ws and, ini. All stats are important in this spec but focus on having 930-950 str and 850+ wounds.

And to quote myself [yes i love that] :)

"The reason behind this tactic: you get renown/xp from "tagging" (damaging) destro players so when you just spam your weak aoe dmg you may not kill many but you will get a lot of assist kills and those assist kills will give you a steady amount of renown/XP". If you go for survival aoe WL try and run solo for the extra renown/XP. And remember try and hit as many players with your aoe as possible

The build is like this: http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=19#15:10784:5:32:0:0:25:523:9211:52 1:9204
For extra survival you can switch Flanking for flashing claws. Another tactic is jagged edge but there is 2 problems with this tactic: first it’s a 9 sec dot and that’s not good in a spam aoe skill spec; you will constantly be redoting therefore not doing a lot of real dmg. Second: its corporeal dmg and most destro stack corporeal res in tier 4 so your dmg output will be very small. If you want dmg go with flanking and run around like crazy.

Use trained to kill or hunt as main stance (kill for extra survival and hunt for aoe dmg.)

On gear:
Write and say what playing style Cadreaft wanna try and ill post some more info on gear and how to get it.

Kabane can you just write you thoughts? thx mate :)

[Kabane]

id pretty much agree with most of that,

i play as a line breaker using AoE spec,
as aoe spec we do have 4 aoe attacks not 2 , Echoing roar, Whirling Axe, Slashing balde and Blade &claw, (blade and claw being a M4 though).

Linebuster spec as i shall now call it, is running in just beind the destro tank line, throw out Echo, hit whirling axe and move forward into the cloth wearer line, when whiring times out got nuts with slashing blade, if u can pick out a low heath destro pounce him/her and use some single line attacks for the extre renown.

the time to remember with the line buster is ur cat is extra renown whore for you, when u cast echo, try to have ur cat on a differnt set of destro because the aoe effect from it will affect the ones out of ur range but in the cats range. the line buster can be Very effectve not only at busting the line but also downing the destro, a few times ive played ive had a WP hitting up his M4 aswell and keeping me alive, the best way for this is get M4 rdy send ur cat on a differnt part of the line pounce in hit echo and slashing blade,(note if ur m4 is up u want to down them as FAST as poss so using whiring axe is not adviseable) then hit ur M4 u will do Xamount of dammage to All player within 30ft of you and ur cat will do X damage to all players infrom of it so if you can cross yours and the cats lines then your doing double damage. Tory will know the effective ness of this tactice and also some of the other guys ive ran Sc's with will tell u how fast the lines break and how much whoring is done. if ur lucky enough to have a pocket healer then the dammage done by aoe is insaine!

[konfuzfanten]

thx Kabane, i have never been a Aoe player but i will try it with Tiger sometime, i just need to watch you in action. Soon ill log konfuz and you and me will go SC whoring!

[Polemides]

bump \o/